Still no updates, its 2008 for crying out loud.

[Foofighter07]

Originally Posted by Maddieman

Are you suggesting that gamers are... fickle!? Heaven forbid.



That's not it at all. Don't be fooled by the screenshot ratings thing - I'm sure they monitor it, but it's not like they've got someone locked in the basement trying to take perfectly composed screenshots.

Although, come to think of it, it has been a long time since Mika last posted...

Seriously though, while that does happen at some publishers, I expect Remedy have got better things to do right now.

It's probably* about controlling the anticipation and expectations of the game. It's pretty straightforward: - if you show too much material, people eventually get tired of it. This might sound crazy, but it's entirely possible to be over-exposed to a game and become desensitised to it. I would imagine that there's only so many 'sunset' and 'mountain' screenshots you can show off before they lose their impact.

"Oooh it's another... road! Except this time the sky is overcast!"

Granted, if you show nothing, people start to lose hope -- that's where we've been for the last year or so -- it's a tricky balancing act. But, with a long development time you don't want to show off your best material right away. It's really tempting, but I've made this mistake in the past with some of my mods, and found it very hard to impress people towards the end of development (which is exactly when you want to impress them). It's like poker -- if you've got a pair of aces, the last thing you want to do is tell everyone. Timing is everything.

In short:

You may not agree with it; but like it or not that's what they're doing.

*Since this thread is linked to a few major news sites, I want to clarify that this is just my 'off the record' opinion. None of the forum staff are privy to insider information regarding release dates or media updates. However, to paraphrase 3D Realms, when it's time you'll know - you won't have to speculate or read between the lines.

Damn just when I was about to think all was lost I read that.

Thanks for that Maddie

[swoop408]

This is lame. game was announced what? 3 years ago? Still no date set? Horrible.

[Vane]

Better to have no date, than a date delayed every 3 months. Or worst, a game released at the announced date, but not finished.

And sadly: true story...

[Bannik]

Indeed, when I pre-ordered my first Xbox 360 in 2005, I pre-ordered Alan Wake, however, I also pre-ordered Resident Evil 5 and that isn't coming until 2009 (I think) and what's worse, the cheeky sods knew the games weren't out and they tried to charge me for them in advance.

[godot]

Originally Posted by ADM

Remedy is.

How do you know this? Studios very rarely have control over the release of information. Unless Remedy has specifically assumed part of the promotion task, that remain's strictly the publisher's job. Just compare how much Alan Wake info was released before Remedy's MS deal with after. One of the most convenient excuses for a publisher to revise the terms of an agreement is when a studio releases product info without authority.

Meanwhile, we are all kept waiting for Remedy to achieve production milestone X which will then automatically initiate MS promotion process Y. And don't expect promotion process Y to give a rat's ass about our existence.

[Matt S]

My take: while it is frustrating to wait for a game that we all hope kicks butt, I would much rather wait and see a finished product that blows me away. In the end, no one will remember how long the game took, as long as it kicks butt!

[ADM]

Originally Posted by godot

How do you know this?

Umm because they have told me and they have said countless times they are not ready to release media.

[godot]

Originally Posted by ADM

Umm because they have told me and they have said countless times they are not ready to release media.

Are you saying that, after Remedy made their deal with MS, they told you that they are in control of releasing info to the public? That would be very unusual. Certainly they had control a few years ago, before the deal with MS. No small coincidence that they were so much readier to release media back then.

I strongly suspect that the moment Microsoft requires promotional media then Remedy will produce it and that the only reason we aren't seeing any these days is because MS hasn't ordered any yet. After all, it's not free. Remedy will charge MS for the time and expenses to create such materials. Might as well buy it nearer to release.

[ADM]

You're thinking too much into it all. Remedy have specifically said that they will release media when they feel they are ready. After Max Payne's success they are in a position where they have control over their product. Look at Duke Nukem Forever it's the same situation with them, not all publishers have control over those aspects of the development cycle.

"We’re not tied to a schedule, we don’t have to aim at a monolithic release date. If we can make a better game by giving it more time, that’s the way we’ll go." - Lasse Seppänen

[Exoskeletor]

and thats why we love remedy. take your time. we will take our time playing alan wake

[godot]

Originally Posted by ADM

Look at Duke Nukem Forever it's the same situation with them, not all publishers have control over those aspects of the development cycle.

It's not the same because 3D Realms is also a publisher. Remedy is not.

You're right that publishers usually have little control over the development cycle, but media relations is not considered part of game software development. There wouldn't likely be a media blackout if MS didn't want one, regardless of when Remedy decides to complete development.

[ADM]

Originally Posted by godot

It's not the same because 3D Realms is also a publisher. Remedy is not.

Uh no. They are a producer on many games but not a publisher. Duke Nukem Forever's publisher is Take 2.

[godot]

Originally Posted by ADM

Uh no. They are a producer on many games but not a publisher. Duke Nukem Forever's publisher is Take 2.

Ok in that case, it's not the same because 3D Realms is also a publisher* and producer. Remedy is not.



* 3D Realms (legal name Apogee Software, Ltd.) is the name of a computer game publisher and developer based in Garland, Texas, a suburb of Dallas, established in 1987. -- Wikipedia

[Morry]

You're trusting Wikipedia to tell you they are a publisher?

[godot]

Originally Posted by Morry

You're trusting Wikipedia to tell you they are a publisher?

Morry, if you really want to turn this into a discussion on the accuracy of Wikipedia then you should start by telling me who published Wolfenstein 3D and Commander Keen if it wasn't 3D Realms (aka Apogee). Otherwise, I'd much rather respond to whatever doubts anyone might still have about Microsoft's role in the media blackout.

[Morry]

My comment was not about whether 3D Realms was a publisher, rather the credibility of Wikipedia. Sure, you could call 3DR a publisher back in the old days, where many developers handled their own distribution. Apogee even had their demos "published" by outside companies, who created their own box art.
But these days, there is a distinct line where any big name title must have a publisher, otherwise it just won't get retail coverage. The other choice is to release on Steam.
Remedy have stated before that they have quite a flexible arrangement with Microsoft, where MS gives them a great deal of control over the development of the project. If Remedy needs more support, MS is readily available for outsourcing opportunities and marketing.

I would say the media blackout is the result of both Remedy and Microsoft not wishing to show content that is not representative of the final product. Due to the experimental nature of the game, they both want to get it right the first time.

[godot]

Originally Posted by Morry

Sure, you could call 3DR a publisher back in the old days...

I stated that 3DR "is also a publisher and producer" to distinguish them from Remedy which, as far as I know, is solely a developer.

Microsoft is Remedy's one and only customer on the AW project. MS pays Remedy's bills and if they want promotional materials from Remedy then they will get them no matter how flexible their development arrangements may be. The reasons that MS doesn't want promotional materials at this time may be entirely congruant with any reasons Remedy may have for not wanting to produce them, but at the end of the day the decision still rests with MS. In other words, I doubt there would be a media blackout if MS didn't want one.